*UNEDITED DOCUMENT*

1

PRESIDENTIAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE

ON

GULF WAR VETERANS' ILLNESSES

PUBLIC MEETING

+ + +

Rutledge Room

Mills House Hotel

115 Meeting Street

Charleston, South Carolina

Dr. Joyce C. Lashof, Committee Chair

May 7, 1997

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Advisory Committee Members Present:

JOYCE C. LASHOF, Chair

MAJ THOMAS P. CROSS

MAJ MARGUERITE KNOX

ROLANDO RIOS

ANDREA KIDD TAYLOR

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I N D E X

Page

Call to Order

Public Comment

Kenneth and Angela Queen . . . . . . . . . . . . 4

Laurie Hills . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9

Jeffrey Woods. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16

Alvin Glenn Younce . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22

Todd and Jan Temple. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30

Marine breaching and other Fox and M256 detections:

DOD investigations

LTC Art Nalls. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40

Fox and M256 detections: DOD technical analyses

Robert Stern . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79

Richard Vigus. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Marine breaching and Fox detections during the Gulf War

CWO Robert James . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 121

MSgt Michael S. Bradford. . . . . . . . . . . . . 129

Jon Laymon. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 137

James E. Kenny, III . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 141

Ongoing DOD investigations: Kuwaiti Girls School, Mustard

Exposure, Camp Monterey and Czech/French Detection

LTC Dee Dodson Morris . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 172

Committee and staff discussion: Next steps. . . . . . 191

Implementation of Final Report recommendations: Risk

communication

Brigadier General John S. Parker. . . . . . . . . 199

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 DR. LASHOF: We'll start this morning's meeting.

3 I'm Dr. Joyce Lashof, Chair of the Presidential Advisory

4 Committee. I'd like to welcome all of you here.

5 We have a fairly full agenda and we'll begin, as

6 usual, with public comment.

7 VOICE: We cannot hear.

8 DR. LASHOF: Are the mics not on? Is that better?

9 Okay.

10 Well, I said good morning. And we're ready to

11 begin our meeting.

12 The first person to appear is Mr. Kenneth and

13 Angela Queen. Are they here and ready to come forward? If

14 you would plan to limit your comments to about five minutes

15 and then we'll have about five minutes for questions to you.

16 And you can use the podium there, would be better. Thank

17 you very much.

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19 STATEMENT OF KENNETH AND ANGELA QUEEN

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21 MR. QUEEN: Thank you. First, let me thank

22 everyone for this opportunity. Hopefully what I say today

23 will help me and all over veterans who are suffering. If

24 not what I say, I've already sent a report in to the

25 Committee and maybe something in that report will help.

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1 On January 6, 1991, we landed in Saudi Arabia.

2 The first few days we were waiting on our equipment. We

3 left on convoy on January 16, 1991, which was the day that

4 the ground war also started.

5 As we reached our destination, we set up our

6 perimeter and everything that goes with going into a new

7 site. There we were attached to the 7th Corps. My job was

8 a 62B20, which is a construction vehicle mechanic. For the

9 next few days, we spent our time building hospital sites,

10 chopper sites, et cetera.

11 After the ground war started, we started to go out

12 in contact teams to build and keep main supply routes open.

13 This would normally mean four pieces of equipment with

14 operators, assistant operators, squad leaders and two

15 mechanics with tools and some repair parts.

16 Like most of the soldiers that went to the Gulf, I

17 took all the shots, most of which I had no idea what they

18 were. Like most soldiers, you are not told what kind of

19 shot you're taking. I took several of the miracle drugs

20 which we were ordered to take. All we were told about them

21 was that they were to help nerve agent antidote work faster.

22 We were never told that they were not tested or anything

23 like that. I wish I could tell you exactly how many I took,

24 but I can't. My guess is between five and ten of them.

25 I did help paint the equipment. I've been asked

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1 if I had burning skin while I was there. It was 110-120

2 degrees, it's nothing unusual to have burning skin when it's

3 that hot.

4 I saw several things blown up, which was vehicles,

5 what I believed to be ammo dumps -- I can't prove that, but

6 I'm going by the difference in the type of explosions that

7 we had. Chemical alarms would go off three to four times a

8 day, which was nothing unusual. We would go from MOPP 1 to

9 MOPP 4, whatever we was told to go to. I'd been in the

10 military almost eight years and I'd never seen chemical

11 alarms go off like that except in test situations when we

12 were testing the alarms and stuff like that.

13 When we would go out on contact teams to keep the

14 main supply routes open, we were given a compass and told

15 how to get there. Today, I have people asking me what I was

16 close to. I can't really tell you what I was close to, I

17 never saw a map. I had a top secret clearance, but yet all

18 I can tell you is we were in Iraq keeping main supply routes

19 open.

20 The job didn't stop once the ground war was over.

21 It stopped when most of the equipment and personnel were

22 back through. It required many long hours and very little

23 sleep.

24 Today, you have people saying that the illness is

25 in our head. I really wish that it was in my head. I would

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1 love to go one day without hurting. I'd like to walk

2 through my house without bouncing off the walls and my legs

3 giving out and falling in the floor.

4 One time I was proud. I've never took charity

5 from anybody. Today, I have to worry about feeding my

6 family, keeping the power turned on. But yet when you go to

7 the VA Hospital, it's like you do not exist, you've got

8 leprosy or something.

9 On one trip to the local VA Hospital, which is not

10 in Charleston, it's in North Carolina, I was in more pain

11 that night than normal in my legs. I had already been

12 diagnosed with Desert Storm syndrome by Bowman-Gray

13 University Hospital. As we got there and got all the

14 paperwork filled out, the doctor called me back in. As I

15 got up to go, my wife picked up her book. She read one

16 paragraph and I came out and was ready to go. She later

17 counted the words, there was 153 words in that paragraph.

18 It was a real good checkup and nothing for pain.

19 In December of '96, I weighed 172 pounds. Today,

20 I weigh 173. I've been out of work since January 29, 1997.

21 Today, I'm looking at the real possibility of a wheelchair

22 because I keep falling as I go through the house, just

23 trying to get around. I'm in constant pain, I'm slowly

24 losing control of my kidneys. I don't know if it's coming

25 from the Gulf. I'm irritable. Thank God my wife loves me

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1 or she would have already left, because she can't do nothing

2 right.

3 Recently, I've been diagnosed with diabetes. The

4 doctor tells me that this is a real possibility that it's

5 coming from some kind of virus or illness. And as my

6 medical records will show, I've had nothing wrong except my

7 legs and that's giving me a pain and I can't keep going.

8 Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

9 DR. LASHOF: Thank you very much. Are there

10 questions that